November 2008 Entries
Going thru the Fire?

Someone sent this to me today....be encouraged!

Malachi 3:3 says: "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver."
This verse puzzled some women in a Bible study and they wondered whatthis statement meant about the character and nature of God.

One of the women offered to find out the process of refining silverand get back to the group at their next Bible Study.

That week, the woman called a silversmith and made an appointment towatch him at work. She didn't mention anything about the reason forher interest beyond her curiosity about the process of refining silver.

As she watched the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over thefire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one neededto hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames werehottest as to burn away all the impurities.

The woman thought about God holding us in such a hot spot then shethought again about the verse that says: "He sits as a refiner andpurifier of silver."

She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there infront of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined.

The man answered that yes, he not only had to sit there holding thesilver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time itwas in the fire. If the silver was left a moment too long in the flames,it would be destroyed.

The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silversmith,"How do you know when the silver is fully refined?" He smiled at her andanswered, "Oh, that's easy - when I see my image in it."

If today you are feeling the heat of the fire, remember that God hasHis eye on you and will keep watching you until He sees His image in you.

Pass this one, because right now, this very moment, someone needs toknow that God is watching over them. And, whatever they're goingthrough, they'll be a better person.
posted @ Sunday, November 30, 2008 12:55 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Spiritual Growth Encouragement
Review of Christianity and Homosexuality Forum

Below is a review of a forum I attended this past Sunday night.  If you need to know who Tony Campolo is check out my blog entry on "Who is Tony Campolo?"  In general, Tony is a baptist minister, who has taught at Eastern University for the past 45 years. He and his wife Peggie tour around discussing the church's need to accept homosexuals, their relationships and have the church legitimize it. I think you will be shocked by what you read. I also have put up some other modern leaders in evangelism and their similar positions. The fact is Tony has been the mentor in this position...

This past Sunday evening (November 23, 2008), a group of elders and pastors of NewSong attended a forum sponsored by First United Methodist Church in Lancaster entitled “Christianity and Homosexuality: A Conversation to Understand our Differences.” I had heard this “pseudo-debate” about ten years ago and felt it was important for us as leaders to understand Campolo’s position, how he (a leader in this pro-gay evangelical movement) thinks, and start us thinking about what we will do in response to this as a church in the coming years. I believe that gay rights will be THE issue the church will contend with and especially with the “Young Evangelicals.” Their post-modern thinking and the false sense of “spiritual superiority” shows great tolerance and unconditional acceptance of those who are involved with this sinful behavior over people like me and other orthodox theologians. Churches better be ready to respond. Here is a quick report of the forum.
PURPOSE
Even though by title “Christianity and Homosexuality” and the Campolos claims to have “different positions” – this was not a debate on the issue. This was clearly an attempt to pressure the more conservative, Biblical Christian to move to a place of acceptance. There was a constant assault by the “self-proclaimed conservative” Campolo on the Pharisaical posturing of conservative evangelicals. This is really important to understand. It is the mission the Campolos are on, and what they are attempting to accomplish through these forums. The ultimate purpose is to make it seem like they are having a serious dialog about what the Bible says concerning homosexuality, yet opposition is discouraged by their tone. The fact is if Tony and Peg sat with me (or any seasoned Christian leader) on a stage for an hour and we really addressed the theological and Biblical issues, the debate would be over pretty quickly. Their use of the scriptures are shoddy at best and they turn God’s Word into an Auntie Ann pretzel by the end of their presentation. Again – the Campolos are not looking to debate or challenge each others’ positions. They try to glorify their personal novelty of being able to live as husband and wife having very different positions. The fact is their positions are not very different. And any difference they hold, Tony capitulates to his bride.
POSITIONS
Tony says with great apology and personal embarrassment that he believes the “act of homosexual sex (or as he calls it “Same gender erotic Behavior”) is a sin.” He makes it clear that the ONLY text in scripture that backs up that position is Romans 1. He referenced two other NT passages and did some freshman biblical gymnastics to discount them and cited that any Old Testament passage is nullified because it was speaking of “purity laws” and not moral laws. He did not mention that the Ten Commandments makes it clear that adultery is a sin and therefore when two men or women engage in sexual immorality and because they are not being married that they are committing a violation of the law. Like I said, Tony is weak at best with his positions. Nevertheless, he does call the “ACT” sin. The problem is that he gives credence and encourages the idea that two men, who are in a loving monogamous relationship committed to celibacy is acceptable and the church should embrace that relationship. He also affords those types of relationships as legitimate in the world and should be granted civil union status. He espouses a “European approach” to marriage. He sees “marriage as sacred….and that the government should have the secular aspect by expecting all couples to first seek civil unions for legal purposes and then if they desire marriage and if the church, pastor or denomination chooses, they can seek sacred acknowledgment of the relationship through marriage.” Sadly Tony states: “I know that my position hurts some of my gay friends and I wish I did not have to take this position; and if it were not for Romans 1, I could have the same position as Peg.” WOW – Only Romans 1 holding him back…let’s move on to Peg.
Peg’s position is radical and overtly supportive to gay relationships. She discounts Roman 1 as Paul wrote Romans from Corinthian, the capital of pagan, erotic religious worship and was speaking of that kind of debauchery. Peg states with misguided confidence that “there is no way that Paul was condemning a loving, monogamous relationship.” REALLY? The 1 Timothy passage stating the sinful nature of gay relations, she states, was discussing the practice of taking young boys for sexual gratification. And any other passage she thoughtlessly pushed aside with superimposed conclusion-determine position – no real exegetical work done on the Greek or just by allowing scripture to interpret scripture. Peg believes that the church needs to recognize, support, accept, ordain, induct into membership and celebrate gay relationships. If the government is not acknowledging them – the church can. She states her case without one thought of apology, ashamedness, embarrassment or timidity. She is very different from Tony’s whippy apology. That is the stark difference.
PROBLEMS
Obviously the un-biblical nature of their argument – from both of them – and their conclusions are huge problems. Yet there are a few other observations that make this entire presentation a problem.
1.     Emotionalism over truth – Throughout the entire presentation, Campolo (both Peg and Tony…but Tony more) evoked the need for Christians to be more compassionate, caring, and emotional concerning the issue. Tony kept saying that “I take this stand with tears…” The problem with this emphasis is that there is an expectation to be driven by emotions and avoid “thinking” intelligently, logically and Biblically. The problem with this topic is that emotions have driven the subject too long and that is why we have confusion and conflict in the church.
2.     Love over conviction – Post modern Christians are famous for making “relationships sovereign” and the notion that our friendships should always be maintained, even if it means we sacrifice Biblical convictions. Listen, “unity” does not mean that I put my convictions aside and ignore Biblical truth. Truth does divide. If we believe that Jesus is God, it will divide me from fellowship with Jehovah Witnesses. If I do not believe that I can pray my dead grandmother into heaven, then I have no unity with a Mormon. TRUTH divides! I can love them, relate to them and still consistently, boldly and firmly take a TRUTH stand. My stand “MAY” repel them away from the relationship. But so be it, if we stand on the truth.
3.     Experience causing conflict – Both Tony and Peg shared “heart wrenching” stories about experiences where people treated homosexuals unkindly and abusively. Those experiences have scarred them in such a way that they both decided to do something about it and show extraordinary acceptance towards gays. (By the way, Tony told of a story about “Roger” – a homosexual male in HS who committed suicide after being taunted. I have called West Philly HS this week and could not confirm the incident – further confirmation pending). Needless to say there are difficult experiences that come into our lives and should motivate us towards love and good works. But our experience should be kept in check by truth and our experience should not be sovereign over the scriptures. We have problems with people who say that they have a “charismatic experience,” but if it does not line up with scripture, we do not accept it. That same principle needs to be applied to this situation. Not ANY experience can be given legitimate status just by someone declaring they had it! Spiritual anarchy!
4.     Speaking at us – not with us – ironically an anti-post-modern approach – I thought this was ironic. Campolo never had a conversation, even though that was the title of the forum. They spoke AT us all night. They never really engaged “with us” or encouraged differing opinions. As a matter of fact, Tony Campolo’s style to handle any opposition was meeting it with humor, deflection and worse yet, a spiritual elitism where in he and Peg were presented as the spiritual, non-Pharisees; and dissenters were portrayed as “cold, cognitive, religious fundamentalists.” Nice, right? Where is the loving and tolerant and accepting embrace from Campolo towards us as he evokes us to be towards gays?? What is ironic is that Campolo has been the guru to the new emergent church movement which values “spiritual dialog and conversions” where we reason TOGETHER ideas of what God thinks and come to a conclusion. The fact is the Campolos positions are sovereign and if you do not acquiescence to them, you are rebuff in a comedic demeaning manner.
5.     Preying on the scripturally weak – I find it fascinating that churches and organizations that have the Campolos are always churches that lack strong theological foundations. Worse, it is churches that preach a weak and watered down gospel. Having interacted with a number of the people there, it was clear that most, if not all, of them had no Biblical depth for discerning the truthfulness of the presentation. I would overhear what the people next to me would say between points and I wanted to turn to them and show them where he was wrong.  Again, Tony is an impressive communicator; weaving in unverifiable sociological data; and using his winsome humor. This is why he and Peg are so dangerous – “they creep in” as Jude states and causes spiritual ship wrecks!
6.     Absence of salvation concerns – I guess what is interesting is that there was no discussion about the question of salvation and redemption for unrepentant, practicing homosexuals. There was an unquestioned acceptance that they were saved. Paul makes it clear that “….homosexuals….will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.” If we love the gay person, are compassionate towards the lesbian, are brokenhearted for the bi-sexual – why are we not concerned about their eternal destination? To promote that idea of practicing homosexuals ARE saved is doing a disservice to them and preaching another gospel. The evidence of true saving faith and a regenerated life is the fact that the person of the new birth will repent of their sin and live spiritually free from it's hold on their lives.
7.     Absence of the power of God to change a life – Tony said this… “I believe that God can do anything; but I think it is unrealistic to believe that God can change the predisposition of a homosexual to be straight.” WOW – he thinks it is possible – but because he lives in reality – it is not like God can truly change a life under the power of God. That statement alone says there is no power for the druggie, alcoholic, gambler, sex addict, liar, gossipers and alike! How sad that Tony and Peg think so little of God’s sovereign power over the affairs of men. Worse yet, how hopeless they leave the gay person, who they claim “walk the floor at night praying that God will take away this agony.” If God made them this way, why would it be agony? If that is who they are and God’s power is unable to change it….why do they pray and ask Him to change them? These conflicting statements and confusing views of God’s omnipotence leaves Campolo’s position nothing short of heretical.
8.     Contradiction of psychological and sociological facts – Tony is a sociologist first and an evangelist second. He is quick and better versed in secular facts and findings, then he is with scriptural truth. The problem comes in that with my brief and surface study of the issue in preparations to speak on the issue, his stated facts are not there. Overwhelmingly psychologists have said that there is no “gay gene” – no pre-deposed physical issue that would make someone gay. Homosexuality is a choice. Campolo – both the husband and wife – would violently disagree, yet the facts that they exalt speak in that way. He contradicts himself over and over.
9.     Making convictions based on silence – the most stunning admission is that the Campolos make their stand on homosexually because Jesus never condemned it. They make the point – “seeing that Jesus never condemned it makes it clear that he saw nothing wrong with it. He spoke against religious fakes and divorce, but nothing about homosexuality. If it was so bad, don’t you think Jesus would have said something?” How ludicrous!  Because Jesus did not say anything then we are free to proceed and engage in activities that elsewhere in the Bible says is clearly sin. If we use that kind of logic then we have freedom to engage in drug use, pornography, gambling, child slavery, domestic violence and all kinds of evil because Jesus never directly spoke against it. And did we forget that Jesus declared that he “did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfill it.” Meaning He came so that we would have the power to keep the Law and actually see what the law was advocating in our lives. Again this was troubling and reveals their lack of Biblical interpretation skills and hermeneutical understanding.
Beyond the massively incorrect positions, these were startling problems with their presentation. At the end of the day, Tony and Peg do not have vast differences in their positions of homosexuality, but worse, their public presentation is not to seriously examine these positions. I believe they are intentionally attempting to deceive evangelicals who are taken in by Tony’s persona and give Peg a platform to promote her unbiblical, immoral, radical teaching. With sadness I say that they are classic examples of apostates as outlined in Jude and 2 Peter. Much like Jude, this is not a warning of the apostate’s future coming – they are here and need to be confronted! My guess they would never subject themselves to serious debate on this issue. As Jude states – Not only does homosexuality deserve eternal fire, but also the one who promotes it in the church is an apostate. Funny, the Campolos did not discuss the Jude passage!
posted @ Wednesday, November 26, 2008 1:15 PM | Feedback (1) | Tags: Tony Campolo Homosexuality
Emergents on Homosexuality

Ken Silva is an apologist who through his website Apprising Ministries is turning the light on false teachers in the moder church. he did a service for us by explaining why younger Christians are jumping ship on orthodox positions in evangelicalism -- like homosexuality.  This critique is well done and helpful.

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
(2 Timothy 3:16-17, NASB)
The Christian Must Listen To God First; And After That To People
Yes, you read that right; I do believe the time has come to rethink how we’re handling the issue of homosexuality in the Body of Christ. But maybe not like you think. As a former Roman Catholic, and now pastor-teacher who adheres to the Biblical doctrines of grace, I am willingly bound—like Jesus Christ before me—to Sola Scriptura. Simply put, God’s Word in the Bible is the final authority on all matters touching faith and morals. And where it speaks clearly, I must also proclaim clearly; this, no matter the personal cost. Having been given a shepherd’s heart by God when He regenerated me I do happen to love people; but, that love also includes the willingness to tell them the truth.
My early, and informal, training in ministry circa 1988 came long before I was called as pastor while planting a mission church in 1994 or was ever given the Apprising Ministries website. Initially my labor in the Lord was studying Scripture for hours a day and then going around the city where I lived talking about Jesus and His Gospel with anyone who wished to discuss it with me. Being that my secular career, which began right out of high school, was as an on-air radio personality—back in the day that was called a disc jockey—it was always easy for me to begin discussions with people. And something the Lord taught me very early on was to really listen very carefully to what people were actually saying. 
Not only will people warm up much more readily to someone they see as willing to really listen to them, but you also will learn an awful lot, and in rapid order. Being that I felt called into apologetics and Comparative Religions it was always very interesting to me—and still is—to listen as people shared about what they believe concerning religious matters. Now mainly I have given the reader this background in order to make a critical point so often missed today: While everyone has every right to feel about and/or to believe whatever they want to (within reason), what someone feels and/or believes has exactly zero to do with the subject, in this particular case, Who God really is and what He has revealed to mankind.
For example, you can sincerely believe with all your heart and feel very strongly that you just “know” president-elect Barack Obama is god (not as far-fetched as you may think); but, it will never change the absolute fact that he is not. My point is, when it comes to matters of Who God is and how can one can come to know Him, all opinions, views, feelings, beliefs, etc. must be tested by Scripture and never the reverse. Which brings me now to why I said it’s time to rethink how we as Christians are attempting to handle the issue of those who are unrepentantly practicing homosexuality and then making the claim that while doing so they have become Christians.
But What Is There To Discuss; If You Actually Believe What The Bible Says
And before anyone wonders further, as a former professional musician once living in Los Angeles I have personally known many homosexual people; as a matter of fact a friend of mine, whom I also worked for, was quite open about his homosexuality. So that said, by now you may know Emerging Church theologian Tony Jones, who despite our differences I do respect for going on the record publicly, has recently confessed:
And yet, all the time I could feel myself drifting toward acceptance that gay persons are fully human persons and should be afforded all of the cultural and ecclesial benefits that I am.  (”Aha!” my critics will laugh derisively, “I knew he and his ilk were on a continuous leftward slide!”)
In any case, I now believe that GLBTQ can live lives in accord with biblical Christianity (at least as much as any of us can!) and that their monogamy can and should be sanctioned and blessed by church and state. (Online source, bold theirs) 
To his credit Tony Jones is speaking candidly and clearly on his position and because of this I’m hoping that a certain popular Emergent Church figure affecting scores of younger people—and now through his Nooma DVDs in conservative mainstream evangelical churches as well—will also be man enough to go on the record with his view concerning this subject, which I discuss further in Will Rob Bell Now Follow Tony Jones Out Of The Closet? Here now we arrive at the very heart of the matter and what it is that I’m driving at in this article. In the video clip below Tony Jones makes another very telling admission when he says:
And neither am I going to deny the fact that- (pause) Where I’ve come to on my opinion on this issue [unrepentant practicing homosexuals becoming Christians] is affected, not purely by the philosophical and theological arguments, but also by attending to the movements of my own spirit.
And trying to pay attention to how I think—and listening to—gay people, gay Christians talk about how their-they’ve-how they’ve lived their lives in such a way so that—in their estimation—they’re in accord with Biblical Christianity. And so giving—I wanna give the philosophical its due; but for me, I’m also going to-I have to attend to the existential, for me, because I know that’s been a part of what I’ve come to… (2:54-3:46)
What Jones says above, while well-meaning, is a repudiation of Sola Scriptura and illustrates perfectly my central point above. The fact is Tony Jones has just told you that after all the philosophical and theological arguments, when all is said and done, he has come to his decision that “that GLBTQ can live lives in accord with biblical Christianity (at least as much as any of us can!) and that their monogamy can and should be sanctioned and blessed by church” by “the existential”; in other words, by how he personally feels after “attending to the movements of my own spirit.” However, for the Christian in any issue relating to faith and morals our existential, highly subjective opinions, and/or notoriously fickle feelings are irrelevant.
The only question that actually matters is for those of us who are ambassadors for Jesus Christ is: What does the Bible say about the issue at hand; in this case the practice of homosexuality. And herein lies the bigger, issue within the issue, which God is laboring to bring out to His slumbering evangelical leaders: Protestant evangelicalism continues give its lip service to the Bible as being the final authority in matters of faith and morals, but when it really comes right down to it—in the end—a critical life issue such as homosexuality is now being decided by how one feels about it rather than what the Lord has already, and quite clearly, told us — “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination” (Leviticus 18:22, NASB).
Those of you who are familiar with Christian apologist and cult expert Dr. Walter Martin (1928-1989) know that circa 1985 he said:
We are more concerned in the United States about the rights of homosexuals than we are about Who Jesus Christ is and what He did. We’re more concerned with social issues in the United States in the Christian church denominationally than we are with those who are dying in their sins without the Gospel. We are very concerned about everything except the things that really matter.
Men and women, the truth is this stuff comprising the heart of the concerns of so many in the Emergent Church, with their reimagined social gospel of the original cult of liberal theology, is nothing new at all. No; now that this semi-pelagian and ecumenical Emerging Church is firmly established within the mainstream of evangelicalism, what is new is the open embrace of decidedly non-Protestant and egregiously existential Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM). And, as it relates to the subject of homosexuality, those of us familiar with Martin’s constant and consistent defense of Sola Scriptura also know what he’d say to men like Tony Jones and Rob Bell, each of whom practice this spurious CSM — “What really is there to discuss; if you actually believe what Bible says?”
But how very, very sad; at this late hour when she needs it most, there seems to be no voice like that of Dr. Walter Martin to be heard within the Bride of Christ:
…the only way you can deal with this is to bring it out in the open and let people see it for what it really is: It’s filth, because it is attacking at the very core the character and nature of Holy Scripture, and making the Scripture say what the Scripture does not say…
 
posted @ Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:45 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Post modern/Emergent Homosexuality
Rob Bell and Tony Jones on Homosexuality

Rob Bell is the pastor of Mars Hill Church (Grand Rapids MI) and tony Jones the director of EMERGENT. both are movers and shakers in the post modern/YOUNG EVANGELICAL movement. both push the envelop concerning orthodox Christianity. i discovered this critique of their positions on homosexuality....

 

And what I do I will continue to do, in order to undermine the claim of those who would like to claim that in their boasted mission they work on the same terms as we do. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. (2 Corinthians 11:12-13, ESV)
Diligently Searching The Scriptures Ala W.C. Fields Looking Hard For A Loophole
Apprising Ministries has been doing what we can bring to the attention of the Body of Christ a couple of important issues e.g in Emergent Church Theologian Tony Jones and his Unrepentant Homosexual Christians. For those who may not be aware of the heart of the matter Tony Jones, author of the book The New Christianity Christians and a leading theologian in the Emergent Church, is officially out of the closet now concerning his view that unrepentant practicing homosexuals can become Christians.
At the interspiritual website Beliefnet, where Jones now blogs, in Same Sex Marriage Blogalogue: How I Went from There to Here he removed all doubt as to his position—as well as that which he feels the Body of Christ itself should also take—regarding those who are unrepentant in their practice of the sin of homosexuality:
And yet, all the time I could feel myself drifting toward acceptance that gay persons are fully human persons and should be afforded all of the cultural and ecclesial benefits that I am.  (”Aha!” my critics will laugh derisively, “I knew he and his ilk were on a continuous leftward slide!”)
In any case, I now believe that GLBTQ can live lives in accord with biblical Christianity (at least as much as any of us can!) and that their monogamy can and should be sanctioned and blessed by church and state. (Online source, bold theirs)
The other issue which needs to be brought to light is one I touch on in the AM piece Dan Kimball and the Emergent Church Seeking Hard to Make Homosexual Sin Not Sin. Predictably Kimball got all offended but, as I told him one time as we talked on the phone, by ones continued involvement with the practices of Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM)—which would beyond question contribute mightily to bringing about the Protestant Reformation—they will only drift deeper into spiritual deception.
For example Emerging Church icon Rob Bell, makes it crystal clear that he personally is a practitioner of this spurious CSM in his Sunday November 16, 2008 sermon “I will say it again, and agin, and again”:
It’s interesting how many traditions (pause) When you read the great enlightened ones; meditation, centering prayer, reflection—in every tradition you can find the mystics—and what’s always at the heart of the spiritual lives, the everyday lives of the great ones was always a period of time. Whether it’s prayers, chanting, meditation, reflection, study—whatever you call it—what is it essentially; it’s taking time to breathe. Because when you’ve been breathing, (slight pause) in a proper sort of way, you’re far better equipped to handle what life throws your way. (Online source)
And a case in point of further drift into deception is Tony Jones’ own comment in the comments section of that Beliefnet post cited above:
Tony Jones
November 20, 2008 3:33 PM
Hi everyone. Just a note. This is going to be a long and engaging blogalogue over many days and many posts. Surely, Rod and I will both grapple with the scriptural passages that directly deal with homosexuality and those that indirectly have something to say about this issue. This was simply an opening post to give you something of my story. (Online source)
That Jones tells us he’s going to “grapple with the scriptural passages” is actually a red herring; 1) he’s already told us his position, and 2) as I asked previously, are we really supposed to believe that no Christians ever did this prior to the time Emerging Church guys like Kimball and Jones arrived on the scene? Isn’t it rather arrogant to assert that no scholars and apologists faithful to the Gospel of Jesus Christ have ever actually understood the Scriptures and/or the issues concerning the subject of homosexuality before someone like Emergent Guru Brian McLaren came along to ask for his moratorium on discussion?
Well, it just so happens to be my opinion that McLaren’s moratorium was largely a ploy in order to buy more time for the postliberal cult of the Emerging Church to further penetrate evangelicalism. The sad fact is as it has been doing so it continues conditioning increasingly gullible evangelicals into accepting the views which Jones at least has the intestinal fortitude to express in the Beliefnet post we have cited in this article. And as far as his going on the record publicly I, as one who has been quite critical of his teachings, do wish to give Tony Jones some due respect.
So then, what about teaching pastor Rob Bell of Mars Hill Bible Church? He is good friends with Jones’ pastor Doug Pagitt; I wonder, will Bell now have the spiritual backbone to follow suit with Jones? Also keep in mind that it’s quite likely that budding politican Pagitt does hold the same position as does Tony Jones of his own Solomon’s Porch congregation. Now a while back in Rob Bell on the Emerging Issue of Homosexuality Mum’s the Word I gathered some of what Bell has kinda sorta said concerning homosexuality, which unquestionably is an issue of growing importance—not only in the Christian community—but in the nation itself.
The following is from an article called “Getting to the Root of Religion” by David Crumm in the Detroit Free Press (03-06-2005) we read the following:
Homosexuality? Bell tells gay people the same thing he tells everyone who walks through the door. It’s a powerfully affirming line that he repeated in his sermon on Sunday: “God loves you exactly as you are. Period.” (Online source, emphasis mine)
If God Loves The Practicing Sinner Just As They Are Period Why Convert To Christianity?
Since that Free Press article itself is no longer available online as a second witness I have also included  the below post at Midwest Church Planting where the article is quoted as well:
In Bell’s envisioning of Christianity, he’s also trying to bypass some of the feuds that have left many denominations deadlocked. Women’s ordination? No problem at Mars Hill. A third of the 15 associate pastors who work with Bell are women.
Homosexuality? Bell tells gay people the same thing he tells everyone who walks through the door. It’s a powerfully affirming line that he repeated in his sermon on Sunday: “God loves you exactly as you are. Period.” (Online source)
I also draw your attention again to “Is Rob Bell Going Soft on Homosexuality?” by Trevin Wax where he brings out that:
Ben Witherington, author and New Testament scholar, writes about his recent visit to a Question & Answer session with Rob Bell. Despite his affinity for Rob, Witherington critiques Bell’s answer to the question of homosexuality as “evasive… disturbing… and unbiblical.” In fact, it was Rob’s reluctance to make any pronouncement on this issue that seems to have disturbed Witherington the most. (Online source)
Wax is referring to “Rob Bell hits Lexington and a Packed-Out House” where United Methodist Bible scholar Ben Witherington III shares with us his eyewitness testimony concerning an event he attended where Witherington tells us, “The format of the evening was Q+A on whatever subjects the audience wants to ask Rob about.” Witherington first speaks favorably “of the promise of [Bell's] writings and speaking engagements and videos.”
And then Witherington tells us that he also felt it “necessary in all fairness to turn around and talk about the problems” inherent with the teachings of Rob Bell. For our purposes here, as it concerns the subject of homosexuality, we stick with the “problem area [of] ethics,” which Witherington felt “became very apparent” when “Rob Bell was asked about homosexuality.” Witherington then explains that in his opinion Bell’s “answers [were] evasive in part” and also found them in part “disturbing” as well as “clearly unBiblical in other parts.”
In addition it was Witherington’s own contention that “in this [Bell] sounds like some other leaders in the Emergent Church movement.” And this is precisely the aspect I am attempting to draw out here: Does Rob Bell also have the same view as Emergent Church theologian Tony Jones concerning unrepentant practicing homosexuals claiming to become Christians? Below Witherington now goes on to offer some specifics as to what he found “evasive”, “disturbing”, and “clearly unBiblical” with Rob Bell:
First of all, Rob made the blanket statement that you have no moral authority to speak on this issue unless you have gay friends and understand their struggle. While I am all for having pastoral empathy with people and their struggles, on that showing, Paul should never have spoken on this issue at all. This comment by Rob is simply an unhelpful way of silencing important voices in a divisive conversation, and its not helpful. Indeed it goes against the whole M.O. of Rob himself, which is to honor other people’s views and beliefs and questions. (Online source)
“No moral authority to speak”; sorry about that Rob, the Christian is an ambassador of Jesus Christ (see—2 Corinthians 5:20) and as such has the authority Christ has given His Church to declare His Word concerning all moral issues to which it speaks. What is more, as one who claims he is a “teaching pastor” Rob Bell is then himself charged — In the presence of God and of Christ Jesus per 2 Timothy 4:2 to Preach the Word. And if Bell is not willing to do so; if he’d rather be a social worker, then he needs to immediately remove himself from ministry.
Witherington also tells us that rather than fulfill his duty as an alleged minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ Bell instead chose, and apparently still chooses, to retreat into a tired old argument:
Secondly, Rob then makes an argument from silence which is in fact misleading. The argument is this— “Jesus never said anything about homosexuality”. This is not quite true. Jesus took all sorts of sexual sin very seriously, even adultery of the heart, as Rob admits, and so it is no surprise then that we find Jesus telling his disciples in Mt. 19 that they have only two legitimate options: 1) marital fidelity (with marriage being defined as a relationship between one man and one woman joined together by God which leads to a one flesh union), or 2) being a eunuch for the sake of the Kingdom. (Ibid.)
There isn’t a lot I would find myself in agreement with Witherington anymore but above he is correct. And as I show in Apprising Ministries: Shocking New Evidence Jesus Condemned The Practice Of Homosexuality, because Christ Jesus is God in human flesh, whatever God the Father says in the Old Testament Jesus Christ—God the Son—also says. Or do you not remember that the Lord very specifically tell us — Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father (John 14:9). The only way around this is to try and cast doubt on the veracity of Scripture. Does this ring a bell, “Yea, hath God said?” (see—Genesis 3:1) 
Men Who Are Undermining The Historic Orthodox Christian Faith Are Given Free Rein
No, in the end the issue of whether someone being unrepentant in their practice of the sin of homosexuality can become a Christian really is as simple as my own comment in the combox of the Beliefnet post by Tony Jones which opened our discussion:
Ken Silva
November 20, 2008 5:32 PM
http://apprising.org
The written Word of God clearly calls the practice of homosexuality sin; and therefore so does Christ Jesus, the living Word of God. Dr. Walter Martin was dead on target when he said, “It is not unloving to tell someone the truth; you can get in a lot of trouble for doing it, but it is not unloving.” (Online source)
So the question now becomes: Are there any evangelical leaders at all with enough backbone to finally step in and use their influence to force guys e.g. like Rob Bell to clearly define their terms and state plainly their position on whether an unrepentant practicing homosexual can become a Christian? And for that matter to also get them to go on the record as to what their actual views are concerning Sola Scriptura. Just remember brother pastor you and I will be held accountable by the Lord ala James 3:1 for all that is taught within our churches.
Men and women, you need to understand that these postliberal posers in the Emergent Church are using language which is familiar to evangelical youth but they have infused these terms with their own meanings. Dr. Walter Martin once laid out the methodology of the original cult of Liberal Theology was to gradually re-educate the layman into their new approach to theology. Well, as you should be able to see via the example of Tony Jones their postliberal progeny have been busy doing the exact same thing.
And think about it; if senior pastors themselves are being fooled by this ongoing Emerging terminology shift then you better know that the precious young people in your youth groups are then totally defenseless against these wolves in sheep’s clothing. Now if I with but a high school education, with no college on any level, can even see through this you may rest assured that God is beginning to by-pass the wise in favor of using the foolishness of ministries like Apprising Ministries. 
The evangelical community continues to remain silent in the face of Emergent dreamers like Jones and Bell who would dare distort the Christian faith at your own peril. You have already been warned of their arrival long ago; and remember, this isn’t a drill:
Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. Therefore be on the alert… (Acts 20:28-31, NASB)
 
posted @ Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:41 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Post modern/Emergent Homosexuality
Campolo on Homosexuality

I found this critique on Campolo's position on homosexuality. It is startling!

Campolo & Homosexuality
 

by Ingrid Schlueter and Rev. Wayne Sedlak
Excerpts from Renegade Prophet? A Look at the Teachings of Tony Campolo

Tony Campolo has tried to straddle the fence for years on the issue of homosexuality. In his 1988 book, 20 Hot Potatoes Christians Are Afraid to Touch, he tries to assure alarmed readers that he isn't saying homosexuality is okay.
"I am not asking that Christian people gloss over biblical teachings or ignore their conviction that homosexual acts are sin. I am not asking that we make a case to justify homosexual behavior. I am simply reminding Christian people that we are supposed to love people--even those who offend us. I am calling on Christians to reach out and show kindness and affection toward their homosexual neighbors...If we Christians cannot love these neighbors as we love ourselves, then we are violating the command of Jesus (Matt. 19:19) and ought to cease calling ourselves His followers. Loving people is a commitment to treating people as Jesus would treat them if He were in our places."1 He repeats these words on page 67 of his 1994 book Carpe Diem.
Few Christians would argue with the need to treat our neighbors as Christ would. But few would find a Scriptural basis for "gay covenants" or the legalization of same-sex marriages. Tony believes in both. Tony Campolo and his wife Peggy gave the keynote address at the first ever convention of the Welcoming and Affirming Baptists (disfellowshipped American Baptist Churches). The following is a quote from the Voice of the Turtle Newsletter, Fall, 1996 edition. (Voice of the Turtle is the publication of the American Baptists Concerned for Sexual Minorities.)
      "The Friday night gathering was highlighted by Peggy and Tony Campolo. The Campolos are longtime American Baptists who are involved in social ministry, and who hold divergent opinions on the question of homosexuality and faith in one area. They agree that homosexuality is not a choice; that homosexuals should not be excluded from churches, and that the lies perpetuated against the gay community make both of them angry. Where they differ is in their understanding of Romans 1: 24-32. Tony staunchly holds the position that the same gender marriages are against God's order. On the other hand, he believes that since same gender marriages are becoming more and more a reality, then they should be legalized by the state."2 (emphasis added)
In 20 Hot Potatoes, Campolo elaborates on his views on the subject of homosexuality.
      "Actually, Jesus never alludes to homosexuality in his teachings. The fact that homosexuality has become such an overriding concern for many contemporary preachers may be more a reflection of homophobia in the church than it is the result of the emphasis of Scripture."3
He continues by giving his apparent endorsement of "homosexual covenants" which he believes are an option for "evangelicals."
      "Recently two homosexual men who live in Chicago solved their problem of loneliness by establishing a covenant wherein they promised to live with each other 'til death do them part' even though they simultaneously pledged to remain celibate. They chose to live together as lifelong partners 'in all love and tenderness' but without any sexual intercourse going on between them. These two men claimed to be enjoying the humanizing benefits of a genuine love relationship that has provided them with mutual blessings but did not violate biblical admonitions to refrain from homosexual intercourse. Over the past year I have learned of a number of other homosexual couples who are evangelicals and have adopted a similar arrangement.
      "I chose to call this a homosexual 'covenant' rather than a homosexual 'marriage' because I refrain from using the word marriage because I think that implies a sexually consummated relationship. On the other hand, the word covenant connotes a lifelong commitment of mutual obligation which does not necessitate sexual intercourse.
      "There are Christians who will disapprove of this arrangement claiming that the Bible implies a condemnation of even romantic feelings between members of the same sex. However, these critics are hard-pressed to build a biblical case for their complaints."4
posted @ Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:38 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Post modern/Emergent Tony Campolo Homosexuality
McLaren on Homosexuality

Brian McLaren is a pastor/writer who has been a leading voice in the Post-Modern/Emergent church movement. he is winsome, funny and propagates a twisted view of the gospel but worst sanctification and matters pertaining to Christian doctrine. The following is an article I found critiquing his heretical position on homosexuality.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 
(1 Corinthians 6:9-10, NASB)
Talking Loud But Saying Absolutely Nothing That Will Convert Sinners
The issue of professing Christians who are openly practicing the lifestyle of homosexuality and yet still claim to be in right relationship to God should now be front and center for discussion within the Body of Christ. This coming on the heels of well-known “Christian” singer Ray Boltz who recently made a rather shocking announcement in Washington Blade: Gay And Lesbian News, Entertainment, Politics And Opinion. Boltz informed the Body of Christ that he is unrepentant in his practice of the sin of homosexuality.
In addition, as you can see in the Apprising Ministries article Clay Aiken: Another Gay “Christian” this American Idol favorite and professing Christian has also just come out as a practicing homosexual in the current issue of People magazine. And so we now think back to January 23, 2006 over at the Out of Ur  blog from Christianity Astray Today magazine where prominent Emergent Church theologian Brian McLaren wrote:
Usually when I’m asked about this subject [of homosexuality], it’s by conservative Christians wanting to be sure that we conform to what I call “radio-orthodoxy,” i.e. the religio-political priorities mandated by many big-name religious broadcasters. Sometimes it’s asked by ex-gays who want to be sure they’ll be supported in their ongoing re-orientation process, or parents whose children have recently “come out”… (Online source)
Well, looking again at Brian McLaren’s non-stand about homosexuality (or about anything else for that matter), you need to understand this. There is little chance that McLaren is ever going to come down on the side of what the Bible actually says about this forbidden and sinful lifestyle because of his own views concerning the inspired texts of Holy Scripture. You should know that McLaren sees the Bible in a very allegorical “Alexandrian School” approach to Scripture so he would not readily see what it clearly appears to be saying when simply read at face value.
But that’s not good enough for these new reimagined Gnostics and their supposed superior mystic spirituality. And much of this has to do with the Emerging rebellion against Sola Scriptura going on within postevangelicalism and its spiritually deadly dance of deception with a neo-pietism fueled by the spurious Spiritual Formation of Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster. The sad fact is we are now witnessing the rise of a Cult of Richard Foster who, with an able assist from his spiritual twin ordained Southern Baptist minister Dallas Willard, is spreading corrupt Contemplative/Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM)—a core doctrine of the Emerging Church from its inception—deep within rapidly apostatizing evangelicalism.
However, I happen to be a former Roman Catholic whom God in His mercy chose to deliver from the religious bondage of the Church of Rome into the glorious liberty of the sons of God. So the Protestant Reformation has much meaning to me and as I have said many times before this spurious so-called Spiritual Formation with its unbiblical practice of Contemplative/Centering Prayer—itself a type of Eastern transcendental meditation for the “Christian”—is a false approach to Christian spirituality really rooted in the asceticism of apostate Roman Catholicism.
Subjective Centered On The Self Interpretation Of What We Wish God Had Said
Men and women, it’s critical for you to keep in mind that for one to even be a practioner of CSM they would first have to put themselves at odds with the Lord’s Reformers who rejected these Roman Catholic mystics now so romanticized today by the Emergent Church and postevangelicalism as apostate i.e. not Christians. So one might imagine my surprise, as I point out in Ravi Zacharias Answers “Can A Person Live A Sincere Christian Life As A Homosexual?”, when this prominent “Protestant” evangelical apologist literally gushes as he is lavishing his praise upon a recent apostate Roman Catholic mystic.
Yet in that piece you can watch for yourself as Ravi Zacharias emphatically states “One of the greatest saints of recent memory was Henri Nouwen.” But this disastrous drift from Sola Scriptura within the visible church today is no light matter at all. For one thing it’s opened the door for a kind of Christian version of the Untouchables in the near worship of evangelical icons such as Zacharias, Way of the Master’s Ray Comfort and Emerging Church pastor Mark Driscoll—he of the juvenile Junior High antics in the pulpit.
More specifically to the postliberal Emergent Church and the issue of practicing homosexuality those who are involved with the “spiritual disciplines” of CSM e.g. like McLaren, his disciple Rob Bell, and his friend Emerging Church Pastor Doug Pagitt, have clearly jettisoned Sola Scriptura in favor of a highly subjective, neo-orthodox (at best), and existential (feelings-oriented) approach to Holy Scripture. And that’s why in his post at Out of Ur  McLaren goes on to opine: 
Most of the emerging leaders I know share my agony over this question. We fear that the whole issue has been manipulated far more than we realize by political parties seeking to shave percentage points off their opponent’s constituency. We see whatever we say get sucked into a vortex of politicized culture-wars rhetoric–and we’re pastors, evangelists, church-planters, and disciple-makers, not political culture warriors. Those who bring us honest questions are people we are trying to care for in Christ’s name, not cultural enemies we’re trying to vanquish.
Frankly, many of us don’t know what we should think about homosexuality. We’ve heard all sides but no position has yet won our confidence so that we can say “it seems good to the Holy Spirit and us.” That alienates us from both the liberals and conservatives who seem to know exactly what we should think. Even if we are convinced that all homosexual behavior is always sinful, we still want to treat gay and lesbian people with more dignity, gentleness, and respect than our colleagues do. If we think that there may actually be a legitimate context for some homosexual relationships, we know that the biblical arguments are nuanced and multilayered, and the pastoral ramifications are staggeringly complex. We aren’t sure if or where lines are to be drawn, nor do we know how to enforce with fairness whatever lines are drawn.
Perhaps we need a five-year moratorium on making pronouncements. In the meantime, we’ll practice prayerful Christian dialogue, listening respectfully, disagreeing agreeably. When decisions need to be made, they’ll be admittedly provisional. We’ll keep our ears attuned to scholars in biblical studies, theology, ethics, psychology, genetics, sociology, and related fields. Then in five years, if we have clarity, we’ll speak; if not, we’ll set another five years for ongoing reflection. After all, many important issues in church history took centuries to figure out. Maybe this moratorium would help us resist the “winds of doctrine” blowing furiously from the left and right, so we can patiently wait for the wind of the Spirit to set our course. (ibid.)
A Real Teacher Sent By God Teaches What God Has Said
O yes, at first glance that all sounds so very pious, does it not? Actually it also sounds a lot like Emergent Church promoter and pastor Dan Kimball as well. In the AM piece Dan Kimball An Effete Christianity Is Nothing To Be Gay About I discuss a recent Christian Post (CP) piece lauding Kimball who “believes people at his church were not shocked [about same-sex marriage] partly because of their openness in discussing marriage and homosexuality.” However as I said before; so what. This is also true of many other Christian churches who still faithfully preach the full Word of God and yet unlike so much of postevangelicalism it doesn’t require us to shy away from teaching God’s absolute sovereignty over His creation.
As a matter of fact John MacArthur—hardly a friend to Christian compromisers—preached a series covering same sex sexuality called Homosexuality and the Bible not so long ago. The truth is that CP article, and the Out of Ur post by McLaren referenced above, are perfect examples of these loquacious leaders in the Emergent Church who are continually blethering on about some abstract Christians and church leaders who supposedly aren’t really in touch with the culture. And certainly not to the great extent to which these Emerging mystics claim they are.  But in the end, the fact remains that there are many fine pastors of Jesus Christ who dearly love people with the shepherd’s heart our Lord has given to them.
And you know, somehow they still manage to preach the whole counsel of God while having nothing to do with the counterfeit Christianity of the postliberal cult of the Emerging Church, which now brings us back around to the very heart of the matter. Because Kimball and McLaren are in fact spreaking from the flesh (the world) the Bible tells us what they are really bringing forth is the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them (1 John 4:5). But to quote that noted pop philosopher Jackson Browne there are lives in the balance; indeed, the eternity destiny of the souls of these people is at stake.
So a word to the wise; don’t let yourself be taken in by fools like McLaren with their centered on the self (mankind) viewpoint of the world as illustrated below where he says:
Perhaps we need a five-year moratorium on making pronouncements. In the meantime, we’ll practice prayerful Christian dialogue, listening respectfully, disagreeing agreeably. When decisions need to be made, they’ll be admittedly provisional. We’ll keep our ears attuned to scholars in biblical studies, theology, ethics, psychology, genetics, sociology, and related fields. Then in five years, if we have clarity, we’ll speak; if not, we’ll set another five years for ongoing reflection. After all, many important issues in church history took centuries to figure out. Maybe this moratorium would help us resist the “winds of doctrine” blowing furiously from the left and right, so we can patiently wait for the wind of the Spirit to set our course. (ibid.)
However, what McLaren seems to have missed is that the wind of the Spirit has already set our course e.g. in the text with which I opened this missive — Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. So tell us messers McLaren and Kimball just what exactly are these “scholars in biblical studies, theology, ethics, psychology, genetics, sociology, and related fields” going to tell us which might happen to have escaped the attention of our Creator? 
No, the absolute Truth is that in Romans chapter one we are informed that the LORD God Almighty’s patience will (and possibly now has) run out. In verse 26 we read — Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. It should be obvious enough we are being told here that what we will read next would be considered shameful lusts by the Creator. And notice that this has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with a particular culture, but rather, with what God Himself as Creator judges universally to be shameful lusts. The b part of verse 26 — Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
The logical question that should arise now is: What are these natural relations women exchange here for unnatural ones. God the Holy Spirit anticipates this question and then provides our answer in Verse 27 — In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. We see then — In the same way as the women the men also abandoned — or exchanged — national relations with women for unnatural ones. So now we can understand that according to the created order, the LORD God Almighty—very the Creator of the universe Himself—has in fact defined “natural” sexual relations to be that which occurs between one man with one woman after marriage.
As a result therefore Scripture then defines sexual activity between members of the same sex as being “unnatural.” And this is also reinforced in the b part of verse 27 — Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Now we can put all of this together and come to the realization that according to the Bible God refers to sexual relations between members of the same sex as shameful lusts. Homosexuality is also said to be abandoning natural relations and being inflamed with lust (a sin in and of itself) for a member of one’s own sex. Verse 27 lists this among indecent acts and clearly refers to homosexuality as perversion.
Men and women, there is just no way around what these texts are saying because this passage of the Bible concerns proper sexual conduct for men and women—period. This is part of the created order itself and so it would apply to all mankind regardless of cultural mores of any generation. If we really do care about others then we’re going to tell them the truth. And if you actually love Jesus Christ then you’d respect His Word and teach to His creatures what He has said. So when all is said and done the question becomes: Brian McLaren and the Emerging Church, what’s so hard about that?
 
posted @ Wednesday, November 26, 2008 11:36 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Post modern/Emergent Homosexuality
Who is Tony Campolo?

This past Sunday night some of the elders and pastors of NewSong went and heard Tony Campolo and his wife Peg discuss the issue of homosexiality.  Before I write about the forum and what we heard, I thought it would be good for you to understand Campolo and some of his heretic positions.  He might call himself an evangelical, but he is not a true evangelical.

TONY CAMPOLO QUOTES
Some Christian leaders look up to Tony Campolo. What's even more scary is that some Christian youth pastors look up to him and consider Campolo to be a mentor of theirs. I get nervous when I realize this. I know of one youth pastor in particular who has made this statement, that Tony Campolo was his mentor. I have heard this youth pastor reference Campolo on more than one occasion while addressing the youth.

How is a parent to know how much of Campolo's teachings are trickling down through their youth pastors to the teenagers as these teens attempt to learn true biblical doctrine through a trusted youth pastor?

If you're a parent or a teenager whose youth pastor mentions his admiration for Tony Campolo please take a look at some of these quotes of his and you let me know if you're comfortable with anyone looking up to Tony Campolo as a mentor or as a Christian leader:

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"Beyond these models of reconciliation, a theology of mysticism provides some hope for common ground between Christianity and Islam. Both religions have within their histories examples of ecstatic union with God, which seem at odds with their own spiritual traditions but have much in common with each other."

-Tony Campolo
(Page 149, Speaking My Mind)

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"I am saying that there is no salvation apart from Jesus; that's my evangelical mindset. However, I am not convinced that Jesus only lives in Christians"

-Tony Campolo
(National Liberty Journal, 8/99)

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"...what can I say to an Islamic brother who has fed the hungry, and clothed the naked? You say, "But he hasn't a personal relationship with Christ." I would argue with that. And I would say from a Christian perspective, in as much as you did it to the least of these you did it unto Christ. You did have a personal relationship with Christ, you just didn't know it."

-Tony Campolo
EVANGELICALS AND INTERFAITH COOPERATION, An Interview by Shane Claiborne

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"We cannot allow our theologies to separate us" (speaking on the relations between Muslims and Christians)

-Tony Campolo
EVANGELICALS AND INTERFAITH COOPERATION, An Interview by Shane Claiborne

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"What can we learn about that kind of spirituality that can help us find common ground? No theological statements were made, no compromising beliefs, no attempts to come to a common denominator. And yet, a kind of spiritual oneness.

That's the place where we come together, in common need and common suffering, as we reach out to one another in love, leaving judgment in the hands of God, sharing out of our own faith. I mean the last thing we are asking in those times is—is your theology the same as mine?—and vice-versa. All of the sudden in the hour of suffering there is a commonality. And that's where we meet. It's in mystical spirituality and in communal mutuality that's where we come together."

-Tony Campolo
EVANGELICALS AND INTERFAITH COOPERATION, An Interview by Shane Claiborne

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"It seems to me that when we listen to the Muslim mystics as they talk about Jesus and their love for Jesus, I must say, it's a lot closer to New Testament Christianity than a lot of the Christians that I hear. In other words if we are looking for common ground, can we find it in mystical spirituality, even if we cannot theologically agree, Can we pray together in such a way that we connect with a God that transcends our theological differences?"

-Tony Campolo
EVANGELICALS AND INTERFAITH COOPERATION, An Interview by Shane Claiborne

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""Beyond these models of reconciliation, a theology of mysticism provides some hope for common ground between Christianity and Islam. Both religions have within their histories examples of ecstatic union with God ... I do not know what to make of the Muslim mystics, especially those who have come to be known as the Sufis. What do they experience in their mystical experiences? Could they have encountered the same God we do in our Christian mysticism?"

-Tony Campolo
"Speaking My Mind", pages 149-150

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"Jesus is the only Savior, but not everybody who is being saved by Him is aware that He is the one who is doing the saving"

-Tony Campolo
EP News Service, Oct. 4, 1985

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"...during times of reflection I sensed that believing in Jesus and living out His teachings just wasn't enough. There was a yearning for something more, and I found that I was increasingly spiritually gratified as I adopted older ways of praying--ways that have largely been ignored by those of us in the Protestant tradition. Counter-Reformation saints like Ignatius of Loyola have become important sources of help as I have begun to learn from them modes of contemplative prayer. I practice what is known as "centering prayer," in which a sacred word is repeated as a way to be in God's presence."

-Tony Campolo
"Mystical Encounters for Christians"
www.beliefnet.com

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"I've got to push everything out of mind save the name of Jesus. I say His name over and over again, for as long as fifteen minutes, until I find my soul suspended in what the ancient Celtic Christians called a "thin place"--a state where the boundary between heaven and earth, divine and human, dissolves. You could say that I use the name of Jesus as my koan."

-Tony Campolo
"Mystical Encounters for Christians"
www.beliefnet.com

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"Today, some of the most spiritual people I know claim to be without religion."

-Tony Campolo
"Mystical Encounters for Christians"
www.beliefnet.com

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"He saved us in order that He might begin to transform His world into the kind of world that He willed for it to be when He created it. … When Jesus saved us, He saved us to be agents of a great revolution, the end of which will come when the kingdoms of this world will become the Kingdom of our God”

-Tony Campolo
"It's Friday but Sundays Coming", page 106

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"Our call is to be God’s agents, to rescue not only the human race but the whole of creation.”

-Tony Campolo
TEAR TIMES, “Why care for creation?” 1992

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"...Isn’t God’s message to sinful humanity that He sees in each of us a divine nature of such worth that He sacrificed His own Son so that our divine potentialities might be realized? ... The hymn writer who taught us to sing “Amazing Grace” was all too ready to call himself a “wretch” ... Forgetting our divinity and over-identifying with our [Freudian] anal humanity... Erich Fromm, one of the most popular psychoanalysts of our time, recognized the diabolical social consequences that can come about when a person loses sight of his/her own divinity ...”

-Tony Campolo
"Partly Right" 1995

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“What I am trying to say is that Jesus who incarnated God 2,000 years ago is mystically present and waiting to be discovered in EVERY person you and I encounter”

-Tony Campolo
"A Reasonable Faith" 1983 page 171

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“I do not mean that others represent Jesus for us. I mean that Jesus actually is present in each other person."

-Tony Campolo
"A Reasonable Faith" 1983 page 192

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“That a new humanity will be brought forth from this Christ consciousness in each person."

-Tony Campolo
"A Reasonable Faith" 1983 page 65

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“One of the most startling discoveries of my life was the realization that the Jesus that I love, the Jesus who died for me on Calvary, that Jesus, is waiting, mystically and wonderfully, in every person I meet. I find Jesus everywhere."

-Tony Campolo
an address at Prestatyn in the UK, 1988

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“There is a feminine side of God. I always knew this ... It is this feminine side of God I find in Jesus that makes me want to sing duets with Him ... Not only do I love the feminine is Jesus, but the more I know Jesus, the more I realize that Jesus loves the feminine in me. Until I accept the feminine in my humanness, there will be a part of me that cannot receive the Lord's love. ... There is that feminine side of me that must be recovered and strengthened if I am to be like Christ ... And until I feel the feminine in Jesus, there is a part of Him which I cannot identify.”

-Tony Campolo
"Carpe Diem: Seize the Day", 1994, pages 85-88

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"going to heaven is like going to Philadelphia....There are many ways....It doesn't make any difference how we go there. We all end up in the same place."

-Tony Campolo
"Carpe Diem: Seize the Day", 1994, pages 85-88

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"Anyone who resists the notion of women preachers is functioning as a tool of the devil."

-Tony Campolo
opening session of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship's general assembly June 26, 2003

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"When in fact we live in a society that makes life hell for gays and lesbians, this community has got to stand up and say, 'We're on your side as you struggle for dignity,' and, 'Yes, we will defy anybody who says otherwise, even if we have to go to Disneyland to prove it.'"

-Tony Campolo
"Campolo: Opposition to women preachers evidence of demonic influence"
Jun 27, 2003, By Gregory Tomlin,Baptist Press

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"I have already made the point that we need to have to win people to Jesus Christ, but we must also preach the whole Gospel which not only calls people to love Jesus but to bring His justice into the political and economic arena in which we live."

-Tony Campolo
"Campolo: Opposition to women preachers evidence of demonic influence"
Jun 27, 2003, By Gregory Tomlin,Baptist Press

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"On the other hand, we are hard-pressed to find any biblical basis for condemning deep love commitments between homosexual Christians, as long as those commitments are not expressed in sexual intercourse."

-Tony Campolo
"20 Hot Potatoes Christians Are Afraid To Touch", page 117

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"One of the meanest arguments against public schools comes from alarmists who contend that public school students can be forced to study under homosexuals and might even be subjected to homosexual seduction. This contention makes me furious - not because I believe there are no homosexuals in the public school system, but because of the implication that homosexuals are some kind of special threat to children."

-Tony Campolo
"20 Hot Potatoes Christians Are Afraid To Touch", page 84

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"I'm not convinced that Jesus only lives in Christians."

-Tony Campolo
Charlie Rose show on January 24, 1997



----WOW! If you need more, I'm sure I can find more but I believe this ought to be plenty to convince any true Christian to avoid Tony Campolo at all costs. How can a Christian hold up Tony Campolo as a mentor with comments like these, especially someone who is involved in teaching the youth?
 
posted @ Wednesday, November 26, 2008 9:01 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Tony Campolo
Integrity still matters!!

I found this today and was encouraged that having character is still a virtue to attain!!!

J.P. Hayes is as honest as we like to think we are

By Jay Busbee

The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching. John Wooden said that, or maybe it was Spider-Man. Whatever, it still holds true; being noble and upstanding is easy enough when you've got people watching, but when you're alone with yourself, when you could do the wrong thing (or avoid the right thing) and get away with it, well -- that's when you find out what kind of person you are.

By that standard, then, J.P. Hayes is among the best that sports has to offer. He played a nonconforming ball for a single hole of the second stage of Q School last weekend. He realized it more than a day after the "violation," called it on himself, and thus disqualified himself from Q School ... with some severe, career-altering effects down the line.

So how did this go down? So easily, you'll cringe:

On his 12th hole of the first round at Deerwood Country Club last Wednesday, Hayes' caddie reached into his golf bag, pulled out a ball and flipped it to Hayes, who missed the green with his tee shot. He then chipped on and marked his ball. It was then that Hayes realized the ball was not the same model Titleist with which he had started his round. That was in violation of the one-ball rule, which stipulates that a player must play the same model throughout a round.

Okay, so, two-stroke penalty, no big deal. He recovered well enough to put himself in position to finish in the top 20 and advance to the third and final round of Q School. The top 25 finishers in that round, plus ties, earn exempt status for the entire 2009 PGA season. So, breathe deep, think about how close you came to disaster, then tee it up for the next round.

Only, while Hayes was breathing deep, he realized something else -- not only did he play the wrong ball, he might have played a ball that wasn't even approved for play at all.

"It was a Titleist prototype, and somehow it had gotten into my bag," he said. "It had been four weeks since Titleist gave me some prototype balls and I tested them. I have no idea how or why it was still in there ... I called an official in Houston that night and said, 'I think I may have a problem. He said they'd call Titleist the next day. I pretty much knew at that point I was going to be disqualified."

Now, the easy move here would be to either do nothing or blame the caddy. Hayes rose above both those temptations, putting all the blame on himself and asserting that everybody else on the PGA in his shoes would have done the exact same thing. We'll never know, but let's hope so.

Also, Hayes already has more than $7 million in career earnings, so it's not like he'd consigned himself to another year working the counter at the Quik Stop. But still, knowing you're taking yourself out of the running for a year of career stability and wealth takes some serious situational ethics.

Would you do it?

Really?

posted @ Friday, November 21, 2008 4:22 AM | Feedback (1) | Tags: Encouragement Golf
Obama's Faith

I was sent this link today about the new President-elect's faith....you judge for yourself.  Remember being discerning!

Can Obama Call Himself a Christian?
Sarah Pulliam
A mini debate has exploded on several blogs over whether President-elect Barack Obama can call himself a Christian.
If you're just catching up, first read this 2004 interview with Obama, but here are the relevant sections.
FALSANI: Who’s Jesus to you? (Obama laughs nervously)
OBAMA: Right. Jesus is an historical figure for me, and he’s also a bridge between God and man, in the Christian faith, and one that I think is powerful precisely because he serves as that means of us reaching something higher. And he’s also a wonderful teacher. I think it’s important for all of us, of whatever faith, to have teachers in the flesh and also teachers in history.

On Sin
FALSANI: What is sin?
OBAMA: Being out of alignment with my values.
FALSANI: What happens if you have sin in your life?
OBAMA: I think it’s the same thing as the question about heaven. In the same way that if I’m true to myself and my faith that that is its own reward, when I’m not true to it, it’s its own punishment.

On Hell
Obama: …There’s the belief, certainly in some quarters, that people haven’t embraced Jesus Christ as their personal savior that they’re going to hell.
FALSANI: You don’t believe that?
OBAMA: I find it hard to believe that my God would consign four-fifths of the world to hell.
I can’t imagine that my God would allow some little Hindu kid in India who never interacts with the Christian faith to somehow burn for all eternity. That’s just not part of my religious makeup.

On Heaven
FALSANI: Do you believe in heaven?
OBAMA: Do I believe in the harps and clouds and wings?
FALSANI: A place spiritually you go to after you die?
OBAMA: What I believe in is that if I live my life as well as I can, that I will be rewarded. I don’t presume to have knowledge of what happens after I die. But I feel very strongly that whether the reward is in the here and now or in the hereafter, the aligning myself to my faith and my values is a good thing.
Here are just some of the bloggers weighing in.
1. Obama is not a orthodox Christian. He may call himself a "Christian" in the same way that some Unitarians use the term to refer to themselves. But his beliefs do not seem to be in line with the historic definition.
2. In the 20 years that Obama attended Trinity, did he never hear a clear exposition of the Gospel? Did the Rev. Jeremiah Wright never once preach on the need for a saving faith in Christ? If not, then that is more scandalous than any of the anti-American remarks Wright made from the pulpit.
3. Although I already pray for Obama (as the Bible commands me to do) I now realize that I also need to pray for his eternal soul and not just that he be an effective leader of our nation. I also pray that he will find a spiritual leader who will help lead him to a true knowledge of Christ.
posted @ Thursday, November 20, 2008 5:46 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Redemption Presidential Campaign
Maximizing Our Generosity

Today I preached on the issue of generosity. Yes I discussed giving but it was much more than just a giving message.  At the core of our giving must be the motivation of generosity. We must be convinced that being generous and free with our material possessions is all apart of being a Christ Follower.  Generosity is much more than sacrifice.  Sacrifice is the maesurement of our giving -- its the standard that God uses when he evaluates our giving. Just look at the passage on the widow's mite - her gift was EQUAL in weight but exceeded in sacrifice.

What is really funny is WHILE I was preaching these thought struck me.  Like right in the middle of the message these ideas began to spew out.  I wanted to ask everyone to take a few minutes for contemplation and let me jot down the ideas. Problem would be they would think I went Post Modern on them. So here was my message in a meassge that I hope people caught....

"GIVING is the method by which we express our love and worship to God with our material possession."

"SACRIFICE is the measurement by which we determine if the worship and faith in God with our possessions is costly enough to truly honor Him."

"GENEROSITY is the motivation by which our giving and sacrifice is drive to the extent that God is pleased with our worshipping of him with our possession."

WOW - I even rock my own thinking during a message and don't even try!  God is awesome to show up by the Holy Spirit and pull these ideas from my study of the passages on the issue.  Check out the full message at www.newsongfellowship.com

PJM

posted @ Sunday, November 16, 2008 3:30 PM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Stewardship
HUMOR - We need a Good Laugh!
I stumbled upon this while looking for an illustration for my message on Sunday.  I have read this before - I laugh every time....remember I was a "son of an insurance man" -- we use to hear some unbelieveable claims alongthe way. BUT no as good as this....
Accident Report
This one needs an introduction, so you won't be lost at the beginning. This man was in an accident at work, so he filled out an insurance claim. The insurance company contacted him and asked for more information. This was his response:
"I am writing in response to your request for additional information, for block number 3 of the accident reporting form. I put 'poor planning' as the cause of my accident. You said in your letter that I should explain more fully and I trust the following detail will be sufficient. I am an amateur radio operator and on the day of the accident, I was working alone on the top section of my new 80-foot tower. When I had completed my work, I discovered that I had, over the course of several trips up the tower, brought up about 300 pounds of tools and spare hardware. Rather than carry the now unneeded tools and material down by hand, I decided to lower the items down in a small barrel by using the pulley attached to the gin pole at the top of the tower. Securing the rope at ground level, I went to the top of the tower and loaded the tools and material into the barrel. Then I went back to the ground and untied the rope, holding it tightly to ensure a slow decent of the 300 pounds of tools."
"You will note in block number 11 of the accident reporting form that I weigh only 155 pounds. Due to my surprise of being jerked off the ground so suddenly, I lost my presence of mind and forgot to let go of the rope. Needless to say, I proceeded at a rather rapid rate of speed up the side of the tower. In the vicinity of the 40-foot level, I met the barrel coming down. This explains my fractured skull and broken collarbone. Slowed only slightly, I continued my rapid ascent, not stopping until the fingers of my right hand were two knuckles deep into the pulley. Fortunately, by this time, I had regained my presence of mind and was able to hold onto the rope in spite of my pain. At approximately the same time, however, the barrel of tools hit the ground and the bottom fell out of the barrel."
"Devoid of the weight of the tools, the barrel now weighed approximately 20 pounds. I refer you again to my weight in block number 11. As you might imagine, I began a rapid descent down the side of the tower. In the vicinity of the 40-foot level, I met the barrel coming up. This accounts for the two fractured ankles, and the lacerations of my legs and lower body. The encounter with the barrel slowed me enough to lessen my injuries when I fell onto the pile of tools and, fortunately, only three vertebrae were cracked. I am sorry to report, however, that as I lay there on the tools, in pain, unable to stand and watching the empty barrel 80 feet above me, I again lost my presence of mind. I let go of the rope..."
posted @ Thursday, November 13, 2008 7:51 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Encouragement
Able to Teach
Recently our Elders engaged in a study on the phrase "able to teach" from 1 Tim. 3 where the list of qualifications for an elder are found.  I stumbled upon a text this afternoon that falls in line with our study….. Be encouraged!
 
2 Timothy 2:24-26
24 The Lord’s bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
What does properly teaching the Bible do for the student?
 
They come to repentance…. Freedom from sin
They come to truth… Freedom from error and deceit
They come to their senses… freedom from the wiles of the devil
 
Reality of Satan’s Schemes
 
1.      He casts doubt on the Word of God and the character of God- (Gen 3:1, 5) - “Has God said” (casting doubt on His word)   Later.. “For God knows that in the day you eat of it..” (Suggesting God is keeping something from you. Can He be good?) Just like God kept something from Satan in heaven- His throne.
 
2.      He lies. (John 8:44) Jesus calls him a liar and the Father of all lies.
 
3.      He deceives. (2 Cor. 11: 13-15) He can present himself as an angel of light and his  angels also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.
 
4.      He tempts.  (Matt 4:1; 1 Thess. 3:5) He actively incites people to sin.
 
5.      He teaches false doctrine.  (I Tim 4:1)- “doctrines of demons”
 
6.      He creates division. (James 3:13-16). The wisdom that is made up of jealousy and selfish ambition is not from above but is earthly, natural demonic. Where this jealousy and selfish ambition exist is disorder and every evil thing.
 
7.      He exploits our sin. (Eph. 4:26-27; 2 Cor. 2:10-11). “Be angry and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger and do not give the devil an opportunity.” The word means a foothold, a wedge. That is, an entry point of influence.
 
8.      He attacks leadership in the church by exploiting pride and inexperience. (1 Tim 3:5) “... and not a new convert, lest he become conceited and fall into the condemnation of the devil.”
 
9.      He hinders believers in their work for God. (1 Thess. 2:18). “For we wanted to come to you-I Paul, more than once and yet Satan thwarted us.
 
10.    He accuses believers before God night and day. (Job 1; Zech. 3:1-2; Rev 12:10)
 
11.    He seeks to hurt, inflict pain kill and devour. (Job 1:8-12; 1 Peter 5:8)
          See also Jesus’ words to Peter re: Satan in Luke 22: 31-32
 
posted @ Wednesday, November 12, 2008 2:37 PM | Feedback (0) | Tags: NewSong Pastors Leadership Development
Praying thru the Lord's Prayer

In application of my message on the Lord's Prayer, I put together an application to that message. here is ONE way to pray through the Lord's Prayer....

Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Use the list below and focus on God's names and charater.....
      Adonai-Jehovah -- The Lord our Sovereign
      El-Elyon -- The Lord Most High
      El-Olam -- The Everlasting God
      El-Shaddai -- The God Who is Sufficient for our Needs
      Jehovah-Elohim -- The Eternal Creator
      Jehovah-Jireh -- The Lord our Provider
      Jehovah-Nissi -- The Lord our Banner
      Jehovah-Ropheka -- The Lord our Healer
      Jehovah-Shalom -- The Lord our Peace
      Jehovah-Tsidkenu -- The Lord our Righteousness
      Jehovah-Mekaddishkem -- The Lord our Sanctifier
      Jehovah-Sabaoth -- The Lord of Hosts
      Jehovah-Shammah -- The Lord is Present
      Jehovah-Rohi -- The Lord our Shepherd

Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. Here are the nine KNOWN will of God statements in the NT - pray on these....
1.       Salvation - 1 Tim. 2:4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 
2.       Surrender - Rom. 12:1,2
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
 
3.       Spirit-Filled - Eph. 5:18
17 So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
 
4.       Submission to authorities - 1 Pet. 2:13–15
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
 
5.       Suffering -  1 Pet. 3:17
17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
 
6.       Steadfast - Heb. 10:36
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
 
7.       Shepherding – 1 Peter 5:2
1 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,
2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;
 
8.       Satisfied – 1 Thess. 5:18
18 in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
 
9.       Sanctification – 1 Thess 4:3 – this is the will of God, your sanctification is that you will remain sexually purity “
 
Give us this day our daily bread. What are our NEEDS?
 
1 Timothy 6:7-8
7For we have brought nothing into the world, so we cannot take anything out of it either.
8If we have food and covering, with these we shall be content.

Philippians 4:19
19And my God will supply all your needs according to His riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
 
And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. Who do you need to forgive...
 
Ephesians 4:32
32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Hebrews 12:15
15 See to it that no one comes short of the grace of God; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;

Colossians 3:12-14
12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.

And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil.   How do you need guard your heart...
 
1 Peter 5:8-9
8 Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
9 But resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.

James 4:7-8
7 Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
 
Ephesians 6:11
11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.

 
[For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]’  Finish with David's Benedication...
 
1 Chronicles 29:10-13
10 So David blessed the Lord in the sight of all the assembly; and David said, “Blessed are You, O Lord God of Israel our father, forever and ever.
11 “Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, indeed everything that is in the heavens and the earth; Yours is the dominion, O Lord, and You exalt Yourself as head over all.
12 “Both riches and honor come from You, and You rule over all, and in Your hand is power and might; and it lies in Your hand to make great and to strengthen everyone.
13 “Now therefore, our God, we thank You, and praise Your glorious name.

posted @ Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:54 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: NewSong Prayer Spiritual Warfare
What is the KNOWN Will of God?

This past Sunday i was preaching on the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6) and Jesus encouraged us to acknowledge and pray about the will of God.  It is NOT an unknown truth that we must try to discover -- nine times in the New Testament we are clearly directed WHAT the will of God is -- here there are:

1.       Salvation - 1 Tim. 2:4
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
 
2.       Surrender - Rom. 12:1,2
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
 
3.       Spirit-Filled - Eph. 5:18
17 So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
 
4.       Submission to authorities - 1 Pet. 2:13–15
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
 
5.       Suffering -  1 Pet. 3:17
17 For it is better, if God should will it so, that you suffer for doing what is right rather than for doing what is wrong.
 
6.       Steadfast - Heb. 10:36
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.
 
7.       Shepherding – 1 Peter 5:2
1 Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed,
2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness;
 
8.       Satisfied – 1 Thess. 5:18
18 in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.
 
9.       Sanctification – 1 Thess 4:3 – this is the will of God, your sanctification is that you will remain sexually purity “
posted @ Sunday, November 09, 2008 8:49 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: NewSong Preaching
The Day After....WHat happened?
The question is what happened in the Presidential this year that would yield Obama a victory? We could conclude that Obama-mania just over took the nation and he was the reason. But I want to suggest that it was the perfect storm in some regards for him to take the presidency. What were the ingredients of the presidential perfect storm….
1.      Hatred for Bush – This was a revote for 2000 and 2004. For whatever reason, people’s hatred for Bush overwhelmed the emotions of the voters. I am not sure that is a good reason to vote for a president. Look at the mess of Jimmy Carter – he was a reaction from Nixon!
2.      Economy goes in the tank one month prior to the vote – No time in history has the stock market crashed and economy shrunk so low weeks before an election. Bush I was facing an economic correction, but nothing like this. Plus gas prices all summer. The Republicans being blamed!
3.      War fatigue – people are tried of the war. Even though they were told in 2002 that it might take 10 years. We have little tolerance for any long term nation agony or anything that taxes our national energy for more than 6 months to a year!
4.      Obama being an unknown – You would think not knowing about his record or worst his not having a record would automatically make him a liability. But not so. The fact is we were then able to vote or support him without a seared conscience. I think it is fascinating that on Sunday news people were saying… “well we really don’t know a lot about him?” This is to cover there backs if he is a terrible president.
5.      Media bias – Picking up from the last point, the media was in bed with Obama from the get go! When Chris Matthews is saying that he gets a tingly feeling down his leg when he talks something is not right! It might be a good idea to have the “Fairness Doctrine” – MSNBC will have to have a conservative show. By the way – FOX News rated 43% -43% for positive things for both McCain and Obama. NBC 73% for Obama and 23% for McCain – Fairness??
6.      Historical hysteria – I think the idea of an afro-American president was very compelling. I was a teenager in the 60-70’s and racial discrimination was pervasive! It was amazing to see that we have come this far in my generation. I think many were driven by that element. Again, this is not a good reason to vote for someone.
7.      McCain’s age – We have a whole new block of voter to capture – young Americans. A 70 plus old war hero is not going to inspire that group of voters. Also when you consider that he could die in office, it feared people about the Palin pick.
8.      Silenced minority – Evangelical Christians were marginalized this election. I thought it was interesting that after Saddleback’s forum, McCain surged. Why? The evangelical voter got excited. HE surged after Palin’s pick – why? The evangelical voter got engaged. Problem is that evangelism is going through changes at its core and the young evangelicals do not have the same passion for theological moral issues. Their post-modern ways do not allow them to hold dogmatic convictions. This will be a problem in the future.
9.      Palin pick – I personally like her and like the pick. If she was Mitt Romney’s VP – they win! If Mitt was McCain’s pick – they win! I think politically speaking Mitt should have been picked. Palin is a new comer and it was too little time to ramp her up and make her ready to win! We will see her in the future!
10. Campaign funding – This is a real problem. Where did that money come from? Who gave that money? Obama refusing federal matching funds was integral problem – but his massive treasury basic took McCain out of certain state races (Michigan) because he could not afford it. Fact – John Murtha was about to lose his congressional seat because of his “racist” comment and the DNC was able to dump $500K his way the last week.
11. Obama’s political organization – Remember what he was – political organizer. He knows how to organize communities; get out the vote; stuff the ballot box; as they say in Chicago politics – “Vote early and vote OFTEN” – and they did! You have to give it to him, he was discipline and organized. Combine that with any of these other factors and you win an election.
12. Lack of civic government education – This is the most grievous. Our nation’s lack of quality and unbiased education, has shown itself to be lacking in being able to equip our young people, who are now adults how our country best works. I had numerous conversations about the tenets of socialism and capitalism. These were highly educated and well versed people – completely ignorant! We must start teaching civics again!!!
Now with all of that up against him, CAN YOU BELIEVE MCCAIN LOST BY SO LITTLE?? (51-48 nation wide popular vote). He was gaining in PA, VA, FL and OH….he ran out of time, but more so these issues were too huge to overcome. Obama was the beneficiary of the perfect storm!
FINAL OBSRVATIONS
·         It should concern Obama that McCain did so well with all this up against him.
·         Obama must realize – especially when things get rough – we did not elect him for him!
·         Obama will not be able to show any favoritism racially or he will be called on it. This is a dilemma no white president had to deal with.
·         He must deliver on his promises. If he doesn’t nearly half the nation will be where t-shirts and donning bump stickers that say “Hey Obama Supporters – Where’s Your Messaih?”
·         Praise God the Senate did not get the super majority!
·         He can’t do everything he wants to do – there is NO MONEY!
·         Obama wants to get elected a second term – he is a political animal – he will not “over reach” his liberal agenda for fear of major back lash!
·         The same relentless and angry accountability that was applied to Bush will be expected on Obama and Bush supporters will be poised and ready to remind (“What comes around, goes around!).
·         The Republican party must TODAY determine how to protect the Senators up for re-election in the next year or two and we better get our house in order!
 
posted @ Wednesday, November 05, 2008 7:04 AM | Feedback (2) | Tags: Politics Presidential Campaign
James MacDonald - Fired up about the Church

God has brought different men of God into my life at different times of my journey and growth as a pastor.  The most recent pastor to have a remarkable impact on me has been James MacDonald -- he rocks.  I call him a "Hip John MacArthur."  He recently blogged on an upcoming book he is working on about the church.  I think this is a great article and should shake us up -- especially Christians about how they view their church....enjoy!

 

I’m getting ready to write a book on the church. It’s gone through countless edits in my head and has now escalated into an almost non-stop conversation between me and . . . well, I’m not sure who I’m talking to… hopefully you and not just myself.
I’m thinking of calling the book, When God Goes to Church! I don’t have a subtitle yet–maybe I don’t need one. I think at the end of the day, my message is this: we have to get back to vertical church. Somewhere along the line, well meaning people have hijacked the church. Some in the name of organizational excellence, some because they want to see more people coming to Christ, some because they feel the church has become too stale to actually reach this so-called postmodern audience, and some because of countless other motivations, good and bad, that I can’t think of right now.
Bottom line: at Harvest Bible Chapel we now have almost 20 years invested in the notion that church should not, better, must not be an audience-centered effort. NO MORE AUDIENCE-CENTERED CHURCH, unless of course we return to the biblical priority of God Himself being the audience. My thesis is that God simply does not attend most churches in America. He won’t work or manifest His presence in places where His Word is apologized for, His Son is polished and marketed, and His power is not sought in prayer or even anticipated. God does not attend churches where the gospel is watered down to a self-help pep talk about felt needs. God does not attend churches where Jesus’ crucified life is not proclaimed as the only hope for a fallen humanity. God does not attend churches where Bibles are not brought, and the gospel is reduced to a formula that a person can recite in 60 seconds. God does not attend churches where words, biblical words, like holiness, repentance, and Lordship are scrubbed from the vocabulary in an effort to . . . ? You may be able to get people to attend churches like that but God doesn’t show up much at all.
God shows up with power to save where Jesus is passionately adored without shame or pretense, without entertainment or needless comedy. God shows up where His Word is proclaimed in the power of the Holy Spirit. God shows up where He can be certain that His Word will be heard and held up for the sufficient, saving, sanctifying word that He promises it to be. Jesus prayed, “Sanctify them by your truth, your word is truth” (John 17:17).
The church has fallen and is now, on most fronts, floundering in the abyss of cultural analysis and human approval. Proverbs 29:25, “The fear of man brings a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD shall be safe.” The western church in our day is floundering in silly attempts to be pleasing to an audience that does not conceptualize the stench of our lives in the nostrils of a holy God. Attempting to become ‘relevant,’ the church has become impotent and irrelevant. At the end of the day people want to meet God when they go to church, but His Spirit is so grieved by what happens in most churches, He simply refuses to attend.
I heard a pastor say recently that the past 20 years have been about “church done with excellence in the flesh is better than church done poorly in the flesh.” How insightful! How about church done according to God’s Word and in the power of the Spirit? How about church on fire, led by men on fire, burning a swath of God’s power across our land like a tornado across a Kansas wheat field? Where is the mighty prevailing church (Matthew 16:18) moving with God’s power, seeing lives transformed frequently and totally? Where is the church that sees miraculous answers to prayer and marvelous interventions of grace? I want to spend the rest of my days working to see the true church, the grace AND truth church, (John 1:14) the spirit and power church, the overcoming, Christ-adoring, prayerfully dependant, Word-proclaiming church return to prominence. I believe it is only then that God will begin regularly attending the churches of our land. If that were to happen it would make ALL the difference, would it not?
Pray for me please as I continue to think and pray about writing this book. It’s boiling up in me now and will take a mammoth effort to write. I’ll surface little bits here on this blog as I work and pray. Next time I want to talk about how the church got in this mess, starting with: “Starving Saints, Selfish Shepherds, and Shallow Services.”
posted @ Sunday, November 02, 2008 2:42 PM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Church
Ironic?
I am reminded again today.... "where does our help come from? I look towards the hills where my help comes from....the Lord!"  When all the pundits are finished spinning; all the reporters are done predicting; all of the politicians stop blowveating....our hope and help comes from the Lord.  THEREFORE we need to pray.... The National Day of Prayer is calling on Christians nationwide to make Sunday a day of prayer and fasting for our country and for the election.
posted @ Saturday, November 01, 2008 2:20 AM | Feedback (0) | Tags: Prayer Presidential Campaign